tone/sound

[Joe]

One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..). Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

[olddog]

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..). Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

I hate to describe tone but the best I can do to describe a valco is the
classic single coil sound. A bit hotter (which is where they get their
"scream") and easy to overdrive. Think tele.... easy to do country with. If
you want back off a bit and you can do nice warm Hawaiian (turn the tone
knob down) style music too. Great thing about the newer (relatively 1955+ or
so) have a tone knob for a bit a tweaking. I'm working on Lonesome Road
Blues with a bit of OD today. If it turns out any good I'll post it.

Olddog

[Tony Done]

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..).  Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

There are three or four lap steels and/or pickups that have a good
reputation, and they are all basically single coil types. These are
the Valco string-through pickup, the National New Yorker lap steel,
the Rickenbacher (genuine) horseshoe pickups and the Fender (genuine)
mousetrap pickup. The two I know are the Valco and the horseshoe, and
they both have that complex chimey sound that lends itself well to a
whole range of styles. If you have got that sound, you can mellow it
down with any one of a number of pedals, but if it isn't there in the
first place, you can't add it. And remember that the amp is part of
the instrument, so if you want that big ultraclean pedal steel sound
you really need a good clean amp.

Tony D

[olddog]

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..). Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

There are three or four lap steels and/or pickups that have a good
reputation, and they are all basically single coil types. These are
the Valco string-through pickup, the National New Yorker lap steel,
the Rickenbacher (genuine) horseshoe pickups and the Fender (genuine)
mousetrap pickup. The two I know are the Valco and the horseshoe, and
they both have that complex chimey sound that lends itself well to a
whole range of styles. If you have got that sound, you can mellow it
down with any one of a number of pedals, but if it isn't there in the
first place, you can't add it. And remember that the amp is part of
the instrument, so if you want that big ultraclean pedal steel sound
you really need a good clean amp.

Tony D
============================================

Good point...I saw the collection you have in another post. Nice Ricky! Nice
collection!

For some reason I thought you had a console.

Olddog

[Joe]

Post by Tony Done

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..).  Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

There are three or four lap steels and/or pickups that have a good
reputation, and they are all basically single coil types. These are
the Valco string-through pickup, the National New Yorker lap steel,
the Rickenbacher (genuine) horseshoe pickups and the Fender (genuine)
mousetrap pickup. The two I know are the Valco and the horseshoe, and
they both have that complex chimey sound that lends itself well to a
whole range of styles. If you have got that sound, you can mellow it
down with any one of a number of pedals, but if it isn't there in the
first place, you can't add it. And remember that the amp is part of
the instrument, so if you want that big ultraclean pedal steel sound
you really need a good clean amp.
Tony D

Think this Magnatone has a Valco pickup? I woulda bid but he wants too
much for it.



http://cgi.ebay.com/Unique-Vintage-Headless-Magnatone-Lap-Steel-Guitar_W0QQitemZ290279491927QQihZ019QQcategoryZ118985QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I could see myself developing a lap steel acquisition problem (LSAS).
There are so many cool and weird designs...

[olddog]

Post by Tony Done

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..). Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

There are three or four lap steels and/or pickups that have a good
reputation, and they are all basically single coil types. These are
the Valco string-through pickup, the National New Yorker lap steel,
the Rickenbacher (genuine) horseshoe pickups and the Fender (genuine)
mousetrap pickup. The two I know are the Valco and the horseshoe, and
they both have that complex chimey sound that lends itself well to a
whole range of styles. If you have got that sound, you can mellow it
down with any one of a number of pedals, but if it isn't there in the
first place, you can't add it. And remember that the amp is part of
the instrument, so if you want that big ultraclean pedal steel sound
you really need a good clean amp.
Tony D

Think this Magnatone has a Valco pickup? I woulda bid but he wants too
much for it.



http://cgi.ebay.com/Unique-Vintage-Headless-Magnatone-Lap-Steel-Guitar_W0QQitemZ290279491927QQihZ019QQcategoryZ118985QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I could see myself developing a lap steel acquisition problem (LSAS).
There are so many cool and weird designs...

=================================
No that's not a valco. Dickerson (?) or something like that was one of
magnatones manufactures

That guy has a few lap steels that he has a reserve on. They look like they
are in good shape but from what I've seen he wants more than the market will
bear. He keeps putting that one back up for aution. I thought about bidding
just because I like the look but I don't want to pay over $150.

He had a real nice valco but same story. It didn't meet the reserve.

Personally I'd get tired of giving eBay my money.

Olddog

[Joe]

Post by Tony Done

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..).  Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

There are three or four lap steels and/or pickups that have a good
reputation, and they are all basically single coil types. These are
the Valco string-through pickup, the National New Yorker lap steel,
the Rickenbacher (genuine) horseshoe pickups and the Fender (genuine)
mousetrap pickup. The two I know are the Valco and the horseshoe, and
they both have that complex chimey sound that lends itself well to a
whole range of styles. If you have got that sound, you can mellow it
down with any one of a number of pedals, but if it isn't there in the
first place, you can't add it. And remember that the amp is part of
the instrument, so if you want that big ultraclean pedal steel sound
you really need a good clean amp.
Tony D

I already have a spelling problem (LSAP! DuH)

[olddog]

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..). Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

I didn't forget about posting a clip. I got to messing with Cubase 4 LE and
I think I'm coming to the conclusion that computer based recording is still
out of my reach.

There is no *real* customer support for Cubase and the problems I'm having
with it require a actual tech. I can record tracks okay but the drum machine
is buggy.

I'm having trouble with my mic too. It's a condenser mic and I think it may
not be the right type for Dobro because it picks up every little noise (Tony
if you have any recommendations??) I've tried moving it around and backing
it off. I may have backed it off too far. Is there a mic I can use that
isn't so particular?

Anyway...I've got a bunch of my Dobro clips on soundclick (no Supro clips
yet). Recorded with my crappy condenser mic and my crappy Boss-1600.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=878277

I working on "Wayfaring Stranger" now (on my Supro) and I'll post it if it
ever sounds good. I came to the conclusion "Lonesome Road Blues" just wasn't
going to make it on my Supro. Too fast! :(

Olddog

[Joe]

Post by olddog

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..).  Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

I didn't forget about posting a clip. I got to messing with Cubase 4 LE and
I think I'm coming to the conclusion that computer based recording is still
out of my reach.
There is no *real* customer support for Cubase and the problems I'm having
with it require a actual tech. I can record tracks okay but the drum machine
is buggy.
I'm having trouble with my mic too. It's a condenser mic and I think it may
not be the right type for Dobro because it picks up every little noise (Tony
if you have any recommendations??) I've tried moving it around and backing
it off. I may have backed it off too far. Is there a mic I can use that
isn't so particular?
Anyway...I've got a bunch of my Dobro clips on soundclick (no Supro clips
yet). Recorded with my crappy condenser mic and my crappy Boss-1600.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=878277
I working on "Wayfaring Stranger" now (on my Supro) and I'll post it if it
ever sounds good. I came to the conclusion "Lonesome Road Blues" just wasn't
going to make it on my Supro. Too fast! :(
Olddog

Nice sounding dobro clips. I havent listened to em all, but will go
back and sample more later. What tuning are you using?


I ended up getting a Johnson T-15R instead of the Epi VJ. It is a
hybrid with tube preamp. It was considerably cheaper and the sales
guy thought I would really appreciate the reverb on steel. I liked the
fact it had 3 band Equalizer and was cheaper, plus I dont know any
better. Guess I'll find out if I made the right decision or not.

I ordered 2 DVDs, Cindy Cashdollar's western swing because she's easy
on the eyes, and Rob Haines "Anyone Can Play C6 yadayada". Cindy uses
an 8 string and I'll only have 6, but I think Rob's is for 6 and I
read Cindy mostly uses 6 of the 8. I bought a steel and a set of C6
for 10-strings because thats all my store had (except E9's) so
hopefully I'm ready to roll when the Supro arrives tomorrow.

[olddog]

Post by olddog

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..). Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

I didn't forget about posting a clip. I got to messing with Cubase 4 LE and
I think I'm coming to the conclusion that computer based recording is still
out of my reach.
There is no *real* customer support for Cubase and the problems I'm having
with it require a actual tech. I can record tracks okay but the drum machine
is buggy.
I'm having trouble with my mic too. It's a condenser mic and I think it may
not be the right type for Dobro because it picks up every little noise (Tony
if you have any recommendations??) I've tried moving it around and backing
it off. I may have backed it off too far. Is there a mic I can use that
isn't so particular?
Anyway...I've got a bunch of my Dobro clips on soundclick (no Supro clips
yet). Recorded with my crappy condenser mic and my crappy Boss-1600.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=878277
I working on "Wayfaring Stranger" now (on my Supro) and I'll post it if it
ever sounds good. I came to the conclusion "Lonesome Road Blues" just wasn't
going to make it on my Supro. Too fast! :(
Olddog

Nice sounding dobro clips. I havent listened to em all, but will go
back and sample more later. What tuning are you using?


I ended up getting a Johnson T-15R instead of the Epi VJ. It is a
hybrid with tube preamp. It was considerably cheaper and the sales
guy thought I would really appreciate the reverb on steel. I liked the
fact it had 3 band Equalizer and was cheaper, plus I dont know any
better. Guess I'll find out if I made the right decision or not.

I ordered 2 DVDs, Cindy Cashdollar's western swing because she's easy
on the eyes, and Rob Haines "Anyone Can Play C6 yadayada". Cindy uses
an 8 string and I'll only have 6, but I think Rob's is for 6 and I
read Cindy mostly uses 6 of the 8. I bought a steel and a set of C6
for 10-strings because thats all my store had (except E9's) so
hopefully I'm ready to roll when the Supro arrives tomorrow.

==================================================

Thanks for the compliment. I'm trying. ;-) It's kind of nice having this ng
so empty. Nobody is making fun of me!!

I'm not sure about the amp. Johnson makes good products though.

All of the Dobro clips are in open G. Cindy is probably going to use some of
these tunings:

http://www.cindycashdollar.com/tunings/

I have some of her Dobro DVD's. I like them but the tabs have a few typo's.
It's always fun to try to fix. <sarcasm>

She is one of the best musicians alive and not bad looking either. I like
her teaching style. I feel like I know her.

When I need strings I copy down Cindy's gauges and go to Guitar Center and
have them custom make a set.

C6 is a good. I've got my Supro tuned to open G because I'm concentrating on
my Dobro and I can play the lap like my Dobro while my wife or nephew are
trying to sleep. But it will probably go back to C6 when these strings wear
out. That's the reason I want another Valco so I can have one C6 and the
other G or D.

A good C6 book I ran across is:

Loading Image... (lots of material to keep you
busy)

In case your C6 book isn't what you expected.

I hope you got one of these:
Loading Image...

Or something like it.

When I finish what I'm working on I'm thinking of getting:
http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=893. Blues is always a
good place to start.

So get a Soundclick account and start wowing us.

Olddog

[Joe]

Post by Joe

Post by olddog

Post by Joe
One thing I havent considered in my search for a vintage is how the
tone/sound varies among the different types. Do all the Valco types
sound similar? How do they compare to a Magnatone, a Gibson, a Fender,
(insert other types I dont even know about here..). Is one or another
more appropriate for certain kinds of music? My exposure to (and
interest in) steel is primarily through things like Hank Williams Sr
and III, Marshall Tucker Band, and other countryish-but-not-really-
country-western like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, and maybe folk rockish stuff
like CSNY. I dont listen to country western. I cant say as I've ever
even heard blues steel, so thats not what I'm looking for.

I didn't forget about posting a clip. I got to messing with Cubase 4 LE and
I think I'm coming to the conclusion that computer based recording is still
out of my reach.
There is no *real* customer support for Cubase and the problems I'm having
with it require a actual tech. I can record tracks okay but the drum machine
is buggy.
I'm having trouble with my mic too. It's a condenser mic and I think it may
not be the right type for Dobro because it picks up every little noise (Tony
if you have any recommendations??) I've tried moving it around and backing
it off. I may have backed it off too far. Is there a mic I can use that
isn't so particular?
Anyway...I've got a bunch of my Dobro clips on soundclick (no Supro clips
yet). Recorded with my crappy condenser mic and my crappy Boss-1600.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=878277
I working on "Wayfaring Stranger" now (on my Supro) and I'll post it if it
ever sounds good. I came to the conclusion "Lonesome Road Blues" just wasn't
going to make it on my Supro. Too fast! :(
Olddog

Nice sounding dobro clips. I havent listened to em all, but will go
back and sample more later. What tuning are you using?
I ended up getting a Johnson T-15R instead of the Epi VJ.  It is a
hybrid with tube preamp.  It was considerably cheaper and the sales
guy thought I would really appreciate the reverb on steel. I liked the
fact it had 3 band Equalizer and was cheaper, plus I dont know any
better.  Guess I'll find out if I made the right decision or not.
I ordered 2 DVDs, Cindy Cashdollar's western swing because she's easy
on the eyes, and Rob Haines "Anyone Can Play C6 yadayada". Cindy uses
an 8 string and I'll only have 6, but I think Rob's is for 6 and I
read Cindy mostly uses 6 of the 8.  I bought a steel and a set of C6
for 10-strings because thats all my store had (except E9's) so
hopefully I'm ready to roll when the Supro arrives tomorrow.
==================================================
Thanks for the compliment. I'm trying. ;-) It's kind of nice having this ng
so empty. Nobody is making fun of me!!
I'm not sure about the amp. Johnson makes good products though.
All of the Dobro clips are in open G. Cindy is probably going to use some of
http://www.cindycashdollar.com/tunings/
I have some of her Dobro DVD's. I like them but the tabs have a few typo's.
It's always fun to try to fix. <sarcasm>
She is one of the best musicians alive and not bad looking either. I like
her teaching style. I feel like I know her.
When I need strings I copy down Cindy's gauges and go to Guitar Center and
have them custom make a set.
C6 is a good. I've got my Supro tuned to open G because I'm concentrating on
my Dobro and I can play the lap like my Dobro while my wife or nephew are
trying to sleep. But it will probably go back to C6 when these strings wear
out. That's the reason I want another Valco so I can have one C6 and the
other G or D.
http://www.melbay.com/bigcovers/95666BCD.jpg (lots of material to keep you
busy)
In case your C6 book isn't what you expected.
I hope you got one of these:http://www.playbetterbluegrass.com/images_products/dunlop_lap_dawg_b4...
Or something like it.
When I finish what I'm working on I'm thinking of getting:http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=893. Blues is always a
good place to start.
So get a Soundclick account and start wowing us.
Olddog

Oh man, I wish I knew about the dawg before...nope, thats not what I
got but I will! That looks great.

I looked at that book before buying DVDs, but I just dont seem to
learn from books. I probably have 10 banjo and guitar books, that I
might have learned a combined 5 songs from. I guess I have poor study
habits. I need to see it to keep my interest.

Thanks but dont expect any clips from me soon! :-) I'm encouraged that
Tony said a beginner just get cool sounds out of it...that may be all
I get for a while.