pickup 101

Post by Joe
I think one of my new valco type lap steels has a pickup problem. Well
I dont know but string 2 and especially 3 sound dead no matter what I
adjust. It isnt the strings, they are brand new and the old ones
sounded the same.
By the time anyone sees this and replies I probably will have started
monkeying with it, and I know nothing about pickups so HURRY! Watch
out; I'm going in....will try adjusting what I presume are the poles
before doing anything drastic.

Wait for Tony to say anything. Don't panic. There isn't much that can go
wrong with them. Personally, I monkey with it too much. I did with mine and
when I took it to the repair shop the guy looked at me like I was insane.
You know that sign?: "Labor $20 per hour. $50 per hour if you tried to fix
it first."

If you bought this on eBay the seller should of told you the pickup had a
problem. That's the problem with these things. Mine was flat out dead on
arrival! Plays like a charm now. It's a screamer. ;-)

Olddog

olddog

2008-12-13 02:33:09 UTC

Wait for Tony to say anything. Don't panic. There isn't much that can go
wrong with them. Personally, I ****** monkey with it too much. I did with
mine and when I took it to the repair shop the guy looked at me like I was
insane. You know that sign?: "Labor $20 per hour. $50 per hour if you
tried to fix it first."
If you bought this on eBay the seller should of told you the pickup had a
problem. That's the problem with these things. Mine was flat out dead on
arrival! Plays like a charm now. It's a screamer. ;-)
Olddog

I **wouldn't** monkey with it too much!

Weird... I could of sworn that was how I wrote it.

Joe

2008-12-13 03:18:11 UTC

I **wouldn't** monkey with it too much!
Weird... I could of sworn that was how I wrote it.

Eh...It didnt take long to figure it out. I took the screws off and
out fell the magnet and the piece of wood cut and painted to look like
the other magnet. I (NOW) learn they apparently used dummies on
occasion to save $$$. They are supposed to work with one, but even
after adjusting the poles as high as I could the treble side and
especially the 3rd were very weak. Fortunately I was stupid enough to
buy 2 of these lap steels in one day and once I pulled the magnet out
of one and put it in the other it works fine. In the meantime I
discovered one broken pole piece on #2 lap steel. But it doesnt need
adjustment. Theres a guy who makes magnets for these so it isnt a
disaster.

http://www.horseshoemagnets.com/_sgg/m4m5_1.htm.

I suppose in hindsight I might have gotten it to work with one magnet
by adjusting the bass poles down, but its working fine for now and I
know something about pickups now.

olddog

2008-12-13 04:07:58 UTC

I **wouldn't** monkey with it too much!
Weird... I could of sworn that was how I wrote it.

Tony Done

2008-12-13 03:45:00 UTC

Take a deep breath and think through the options:

Remove the pickup cover if it has one, so you can see what is going
on.

1) Are the strings aligned with the pole pieces? Look through the
holes in the top of the pickup to make sure that the string run
directly under them.

2) Is therea magnetic connection between the strings and the pickup?
An iron filing or a single fibre of steel wool between the string and
the pickup will kill that string completely. Get a strong light and
have a look.

2) Are the nut slots bad? Can you fix it by lifting the offending
strings out of the nut slots onto the top of the nut, or by using the
bar on the offending strings?

3) Is the saddle bad? Move the strings a very short distance on the
saddle, but not enough to shift them from the pole pieces. Does this
fix it?

4) The most likely IMO, but check the other things first. Bad pole
pieces. Get a strong light, and look through the holes in the top of
the pickup and through the front end of the pickup. You should be able
to see screwdriver slots in the top of each pole piece, and they
should all be approximately level with the top of the coil cover. The
pole piece for the thickest plain string should be a little lower than
the thinnest wound string, so if you use a wound third string, the
pole piece heights should go (1st to 6th) high, low, high, lower, low.
For a plain third it would be high, lower, low, high, lower, low. The
whole range from high to low should only be about 1/32 to 1/20". If
any of the screwdriver slots are broken, or the heights look wrong,
then the pole pieces need adjusting. Broken slots indicate that the
pole pieces are probably frozen, and someone he used too much force to
try freeing them. If the pole piece slots aren't broken, you can try
moving them with a fine scewdriver through the holes in the pickup,
but be careful. I use a scewdriver made from a piece of brass brazing
rod, which hopefully with break before the polepieces.

If the polepieces are frozen, I can give you detailed instructions on
how to fix them, but that is a lot of writing, so I won't bother
unless it is needed. - Just try the other stuff first and report back.

Tony D

Joe

2008-12-13 15:22:18 UTC

Post by Tony Done
Remove the pickup cover if it has one, so you can see what is going
on.
1) Are the strings aligned with the pole pieces? Look through the
holes in the top of the pickup to make sure that the string run
directly under them.
2) Is therea magnetic connection between the strings and the pickup?
An iron filing or a single fibre of steel wool between the string and
the pickup will kill that string completely. Get a strong light and
have a look.
2) Are the nut slots bad? Can you fix it by lifting the offending
strings out of the nut slots onto the top of the nut, or by using the
bar on the offending strings?
3) Is the saddle bad? Move the strings a very short distance on the
saddle, but not enough to shift them from the pole pieces. Does this
fix it?
4) The most likely IMO, but check the other things first. Bad pole
pieces. Get a strong light, and look through the holes in the top of
the pickup and through the front end of the pickup. You should be able
to see screwdriver slots in the top of each pole piece, and they
should all be approximately level with the top of the coil cover. The
pole piece for the thickest plain string should be a little lower than
the thinnest wound string, so if you use a wound third string, the
pole piece heights should go (1st to 6th) high, low, high, lower, low.
For a plain third it would be high, lower, low, high, lower, low. The
whole range from high to low should only be about 1/32 to 1/20". If
any of the screwdriver slots are broken, or the heights look wrong,
then the pole pieces need adjusting. Broken slots indicate that the
pole pieces are probably frozen, and someone he used too much force to
try freeing them. If the pole piece slots aren't broken, you can try
moving them with a fine scewdriver through the holes in the pickup,
but be careful. I use a scewdriver made from a piece of brass brazing
rod, which hopefully with break before the polepieces.
If the polepieces are frozen, I can give you detailed instructions on
how to fix them, but that is a lot of writing, so I won't bother
unless it is needed. - Just try the other stuff first and report back.
Tony D

Thanks for that, it helped me to get things fine tuned. Someday I will
probably want the instructions for removing the frozen (and broken)
pole but there is no rush. I'm not that motivated to loosen it when it
is set OK for now. Should I put a droplet of WD-40 or something on it
in the meantime?

Tony Done

2008-12-13 21:45:25 UTC

It won't harm to put a little WD-40 on it, but to do a good job of
that is nearly as much work as replacing the pole pieces. I wouldn't
just go spraying in around. I did it by dismantling the top of the
pickup, then unscrewing it from the body and applying it with a
toothpick (spray some into a container) to both ends of the polepiece.
- It is likely to be the bottom that is corroded into the steel plate,
not the top.

If you take the pickup apart, be sure to get the magnets facing to
same way, ie both N or both S up, when you put it back together again.

Tony D

Joe

2008-12-14 03:34:34 UTC

Post by Tony Done
If you take the pickup apart, be sure to get the magnets facing to
same way, ie both N or both S up, when you put it back together again.

Yeah that occurred to me too...after I put it back together of course.
Seems to work well anyway.
Now comes the hard part, learning to play.

olddog

2008-12-14 03:45:43 UTC

Post by Tony Done
If you take the pickup apart, be sure to get the magnets facing to
same way, ie both N or both S up, when you put it back together again.

Yeah that occurred to me too...after I put it back together of course.
Seems to work well anyway.
Now comes the hard part, learning to play.

Or the fun part. I have the feeling you're better than you let on.

Olddog

Joe

2008-12-14 14:42:03 UTC

Post by Tony Done
If you take the pickup apart, be sure to get the magnets facing to
same way, ie both N or both S up, when you put it back together again.

Yeah that occurred to me too...after I put it back together of course.
Seems to work well anyway.
Now comes the hard part, learning to play.

Or the fun part. I have the feeling you're better than you let on.
Olddog

olddog

2008-12-14 18:21:24 UTC

Post by Tony Done
If you take the pickup apart, be sure to get the magnets facing to
same way, ie both N or both S up, when you put it back together again.

Yeah that occurred to me too...after I put it back together of course.
Seems to work well anyway.
Now comes the hard part, learning to play.

Or the fun part. I have the feeling you're better than you let on.
Olddog

Crap, did I let something on?

I wish I was better than what I let on. I'm worse. I dont bring much
in the way of skill. I have basic fingerpicking skills which might
make picking somewhat easier than a complete nooby, but thats about
it.

I've been trying to ignore the dawning realization that music theory
would come in really handy about now.

I received my Rob Haines DVD and watched the first hour last night. He
spends most of that time talking about the instrument, accessories,
tuning. Most of which is probably helpful but gets boring quick.
Unfortunately he uses an 8 string tuned GACEGACE whereas I only have
strings 2-7, so its a pain in the ass to transfer to my 6 string.
There is no tab with it (inexcusable), or it would be much easier to
figure out. But it has gotten me started and showed me the basic bar
techniques, pick blocking, etc. I think I like this C6 tuning for the
stuff I want to learn. Its got that sound. I wish there was better
DVD instruction available for 6 string.

===============================================

Yeah...But there really isn't. Not much in C6 anyway.

I do like that Mel Bay book/CD but you may find it a bit hokey. It is hokey
but not in a childish way.

One problem with DVD's is they have a pretty limited amount of material they
cover where a CD and a book will cover easily twice as much and you
(usually) get a better quality tab.

I wondered why you bought the 8 string DVD but I figured you knew what you
were doing. You might pick up a 8 string in the future anyway.

There looked like there was quite a bit of material on that guys web site.
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/LapTab.html Don't tell me you've already
burned through it.

If you want blues material this guy is one of the best lap steel players out
there: http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=893. Includes music
and tab but he uses open G and D.

If it's like that other Homespun DVD I got it will have typos, but better
than nothing.

I noticed he's got a Hawaiian one.
http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=780 with tab. May cover
some C6 but it doesn't say.

Olddog

Joe

2008-12-15 03:45:44 UTC

Post by Tony Done
If you take the pickup apart, be sure to get the magnets facing to
same way, ie both N or both S up, when you put it back together again.

Yeah that occurred to me too...after I put it back together of course.
Seems to work well anyway.
Now comes the hard part, learning to play.

Or the fun part. I have the feeling you're better than you let on.
Olddog

Crap, did I let something on?
I wish I was better than what I let on. I'm worse. I dont bring much
in the way of skill. I have basic fingerpicking skills which might
make picking somewhat easier than a complete nooby, but thats about
it.
I've been trying to ignore the dawning realization that music theory
would come in really handy about now.
I received my Rob Haines DVD and watched the first hour last night. He
spends most of that time talking about the instrument, accessories,
tuning. Most of which is probably helpful but gets boring quick.
Unfortunately he uses an 8 string tuned GACEGACE whereas I only have
strings 2-7, so its a pain in the ass to transfer to my 6 string.
There is no tab with it (inexcusable), or it would be much easier to
figure out. But it has gotten me started and showed me the basic bar
techniques, pick blocking, etc. I think I like this C6 tuning for the
stuff I want to learn. Its got that sound. I wish there was better
DVD instruction available for 6 string.
===============================================
Yeah...But there really isn't. Not much in C6 anyway.
I do like that Mel Bay book/CD but you may find it a bit hokey. It is hokey
but not in a childish way.
One problem with DVD's is they have a pretty limited amount of material they
cover where a CD and a book will cover easily twice as much and you
(usually) get a better quality tab.
I wondered why you bought the 8 string DVD but I figured you knew what you
were doing. You might pick up a 8 string in the future anyway.
There looked like there was quite a bit of material on that guys web site.http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/LapTab.htmlDon't tell me you've already
burned through it.
If you want blues material this guy is one of the best lap steel players out
there:http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=893. Includes music
and tab but he uses open G and D.
If it's like that other Homespun DVD I got it will have typos, but better
than nothing.
I noticed he's got a Hawaiian one.http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=780with tab. May cover
some C6 but it doesn't say.
Olddog

Well you are right, I have started thinking about 8 string already!
It might be easier to start it sooner rather than later. And you are
both right about that website I posted. No I havent whizzed through it
haha. I'm still working on the very beginning stuff but I am starting
to have a lot of fun and making some cool sounds. I think that site
will keep me busy for a while, and its free.

Tony Done

2008-12-14 20:22:06 UTC